[sub]vivalist

Your First Firearm

1. Thanks for this.  Found you over at Ace.

   anyway, I just bought my first pistol - a Bersa Thunder 380.  Found mostly very positive reviews.  I know it’s kinda small as far as stopping power, but I discovered with a friend’s pistol that I’ve got kind of a knack for putting the projectile where I want it to go.  A well-placed .38 will do the job, whereas a poorly-placed .45 won’t necessarily.

   I read quite a bit about it before I got it.  I really WANTED a Springfield XD, but I couldn’t fork over the $500 (the Bersa was half that).  Maybe next time.

   Thoughts?

   Posted by Godefroi on 11/06 at 02:58 PM [link]

2. Ok, $500 for one gun can get you a pretty nice firearm, but if you shop around you can get at least a couple for that much.  Case in point, I just bought an N.E.F. Pardner 20ga shotgun for $139.00.  It’s a single barreled, break action shotgun with a 20” barrel.  Not the most tactical piece of gear, but #3 buckshot out of this one will kill the zombie/crackfiend/burglar just as dead as an uber tactical Benelli 12ga will, and it will kick less.  Furthermore, it’s such a basic design that you could teach anybody how to use one in about five minutes.  With practice, you can reload these pretty durn quick.  The best thing about these is that they’re like a fork, you pick it up and it just works…  Furthermore, a single barreled, break action shotgun doesn’t scream “scary military weapon”.  Being seen in your suburban backyard with one of these is far less likely to spook people than a scary black police shotgun.  Plus it’s small enough to hide in your truck if you had to.

   So with the remaining $361.00 you could get yourself a Taurus revolver in .38 spl +P with a 4” barrel (you’ll have to shop around for that price, but it’s doable).  Load it up with 158 gr LSWCHP rounds (the famous FBI load) and you’re good to go.

   So there you go, two firearms for $500.00.  Way more bases are covered this way than buying a $500.00 handgun in my opinion.

   Posted by Achmed on 11/06 at 03:13 PM [link]

3. Godefroi,

   Thanks for coming over. Tell your friends - this could be a lot of fun if a few more folks come around.

   I was given as a gift several years ago a Beretta .380. It’s a finely-crafted gun - the smoothest action on a pistol I’ve ever seen. It eats anything you feed it, which goes a long way towards confidence that it will go bang when I need it to.

   I’ve read the million or so comments all over the web about the puny stopping power of the .380, but I’m exactly like you - anywhere from about 10 yards in, I can put the round exactly where I want it. From 5 yards I can put it anywhere inside the diameter of a coaster. I agree that a well-placed round of .380 is just as devastating (and sometimes more so) than a poorly-placed round of .45. I use Federal hollow points, and I feel pretty confident about what they’ll do if I ever need them.

   Plus there’s the issue of size. I’d love an XD .45 (my next purchase when I can spare the cash), but carrying that thing concealed cannot be fun. My Beretta - and I’m guessing your Bersa too - are tidy little carry guns. I don’t own a Bersa, but I’ve fired one, and I think we’ve both made good decisions in this regard.

   Posted by Greg on 11/06 at 03:21 PM [link]

4. I was that guy—first time buyer on a budget—just a couple of years ago.

   I seriously considered the Bersa 380, but being a bit light—and being an automatic, I was unwilling and bought a revolver instead.

   I wonder why Godefroi mentions the Taurus 38sp +P, when the 357 Magnum is only a couple dollars more.  That’s what I ended up with, for the primary reason that I could get comfortable with it using light .38sp loads, but could crank it up with 7 rounds of 357 for more serious situations.  I like it alot, and it will never ever jam or fail.

   A couple years later I added the scary black police shotgun (traded a cheap hungarian PA63 for it).

   Next up?  Probably the rifle… hopefully Greg’s new blog will help me narrow down the choices.

   Posted by Ytram on 11/06 at 04:54 PM [link]

5. Actually Ytram, it was me that recommended .38 spl +p.  I did this primarily to stay withing the budget (while buying two firearms), and because I tend not to recommend any of the magnum rounds for a new shooter (yes, I realize it shoots .38 spl. as well).  That said, if you can find a .357 for a reasonable price, by all means buy it.  My experience has been that .357 revolvers tend to cost at least 75 to 100 bucks more than their .38 spl counterparts.  YMMV…

   Posted by Achmed on 11/06 at 05:22 PM [link]

6. Yeah, I’d have to agree with Achmed on the magnum for new shooters. It’s fun to shoot, but unless you’ve got some experience, and plenty of meat on your bones, it’s going to be a handful. New shooters need something they can control, that also has reasonable stooping power. If they want, or think they need, to size up later, they can always do so.

   Posted by Greg on 11/06 at 05:41 PM [link]

7. Well if you DO go for a 38, get a small one—5 rounds.  The only thing I don’t like about my 7 rd 357 is that it’s fat and heavy.  I can put it in a coat pocket, but it sags something fierce.

   Get a 38 that will fit in your wife’s purse.  Because you’ll probably give it to her and want something bigger

   Posted by Ytram on 11/06 at 07:11 PM [link]

8. While a 5 shot snubby .38 has it’s advantages, I’d still advocate a service revolver with a 4” barrel.  They’re still pretty easy to conceal, and the extra sight radius and barrel length do wonders for accuracy over a snubby.  Here’s where the .38 spl has it over the .357, a 4” .357 is a bit bigger and harder to conceal than its’ counterpart in .38 spl.  The .357 is a good deal heavier as well, adding to difficulties concealing it.  Not that you can’t conceal a .357 (I have), it’s just harder than concealing a .38 spl. 

   All of this having been said, all handguns are a compromise.  They’re what you use to fight your way to the gun cabinet to get your long gun.  No handgun round (fired out of a handgun) is anywhere near the manstopper that a rifle or shotgun round is, and no handgun is as easy to shoot well as a long gun.

   Posted by Achmed on 11/07 at 01:30 PM [link]

9. “They’re what you use to fight your way to the gun cabinet to get your long gun”

   Agreed…the 12ga and 20ga, and the 30-30 Winchester (Yippee-ky-ay!!) are my real zombie killers.

   The Bersa’s primarily for potential social situations.

   Posted by Godefroi on 11/07 at 03:38 PM [link]

10. Also, think in worst-case scenarios in terms of your choice of caliber. Although I really like .45 ACP, 9mm makes more sense in terms of plentiful, cheap ammo. This becomes especially important in times of crisis, when you may have to “appropriate” ammo by any means necessary- having a common caliber increases your odds of getting stuff you can use.

    Posted by Chris on 11/20 at 09:38 AM [link]

11. If you are going to own just one gun, it should be a shotgun.  If you are going to own more than one gun, the first should be a shotgun.  For $500 you can buy a good pump gun and have some left over for ammo.  I don’t think gauge matters too much unless you plan on hunting big game.  Consider availability & price.  For all kinds of hunting up to whitetail deer a 410 is sufficient.  It requires greater skill, but it is enough gun.  For the money, a Saiga shotgun is hard to beat.  12, 20 or 410 gauge, semi auto, high capacity magazines, loads of options and conversions available.  Low cost, rugged, dependable and effective.  The gas operated action goes a long way toward reducing recoil.  For personal defense, even the 410 is sufficient.  3” shell, five 000 buckshot, five rounds (four in the mag & one in the chamber) that’s enough.  Ten round mags are available and are legal with some modification to the gun.  Same goes for 12 gauge.  There’s even a 20 round drum magazine for that.

    I came here from “Theothersideofkim.com” and like what I see so far.

    Posted by lenf on 11/21 at 11:40 AM [link]

12. .
    First (only) gun, in a (potential) SHTF environment?  No Question: A 22LR like a Ruger 10/22.  It does everything poorly, but it does everything.  Ridiculously easy to shoot well, accurate, capable, nothing to be sneezed at by a BG, quite, perfect for small game, can be stretched even to small deer, compact, easy to transport, unlikely to be banned even by an ultra-partisan class-warfare abomination, with ubiquitous ammunition.

    Lots of money left over for good optics, range fees, and a goodly stock of ammunition. 

    Either that, or a high cap shotty like the Mossberg 500.

    Posted by Charlie Foxtrot on 11/21 at 11:47 AM [link]

13. I firmly believe that a handgun should be the first firearm purchase, and that it should be concealable. Although it is possible that the Apocalypse is at hand, it is also possible that an asteroid will strike the earth and end our civilization. My preps are directed towards smaller disasters and troubles, what I consider more probable situations. When society has not totally broken down, and in a non-rural environment, a handgun is the best choice.
    After Katrina, the police were taking any firearms they saw. They were not searching everyone for weapons, but those rifles or shotguns got confiscated and their owners still don’t have them back today.
    This is also the advice of FerFal, a gentleman in Argentina. http://ferfal.blogspot.com/ Argentina today could be where we are going here in the US.

    Posted by tweell on 11/21 at 12:48 PM [link]

14. I bought a used Smith&Wesson;model 19 .357 mag for $350 out the door when I got my last “stimulus” check. If your looking for a revolver you should easily be able to find something similar, I found numerous model 10 38 specials before I found the 357 and they were about $100 less. 

    Use the rest to get a cheap used 12 gauge.

    Keep in mind, there is nothing wrong with buyiing used guns as long as they are from a good maker and they are in decent shape.  Let the other guy take the hit on the price.

    Posted by Jeff on 11/21 at 01:20 PM [link]

15. lenf,

    Thanks for following the link from KDT. I hope to be able to fill one small void Kim will be leaving next week.

    Posted by Greg on 11/21 at 01:46 PM [link]

16. Greg, Kim sent me over, and I wish your blog well.

    People, this is a serious subject, especially given the possible intentions of the incoming Administration. I write from the UK, and found out the hard way that governments can see their own people as the enemy.

    If you are presently unarmed and thus effectively defenseless, start doing something about it now. Get yourself some training in basic marksmanship, choose your weapon, then get some serious training. The more there are of you the better: numbers count.

    Don’t get to the point that you open this post and recognise the exploded drawing at once as being of the Colt your government took away from you at a time of anti-gun hysteria.

    Posted by Jeff Wood on 11/21 at 02:20 PM [link]

17. I’d have to recommend the two gun scenario as well.  The first would be a pump shotgun in 12 GA like a Mossberg 500.  I paid $195 bucks for mine and it came with a slug barrel.  The best thing about a shotgun is that ammo is readily available even in Blue states like CT and you can get all sorts of loads, OO buck slugs 2 shot, light skeet loads if the 12GA is too much for a smaller person.  A shotgun is more than capable for most any job and has the added benefits of ease of use and social acceptance.  Not too many PTA moms would be comfortable picking up a new FN Herstal FS2000 and learning how to use it.
    The second gun would be a handgun to make up for the shotguns only downside: it’s big and hard to keep at the ready in a convenient place at all times.
    For a handgun I’d recommend a used Ruger Security Six in .357 or the like.  Again ammo is widely available and you have a choice between using balls out .357 loads or .38 wadcutters if the .357 is too much for you.  Training time would be minimal and these guns can be picked up for less than than $300 if you shop around a bit.

    Posted by El Duderino on 11/21 at 02:36 PM [link]

18. What about those of us in places where handguns or carry permits are very difficult to get?  I live in Buffalo, NY and it’s about a 1 year wait for a permit to own a handgun with about a 1/10k chance you’ll be granted a concealed carry permit.

    At my house it’s an Ithaca Model 37 in 20 ga with a 20” barrel.

    Or the WASR-10 I bought the day after the election…

    Posted by Scotty on 11/21 at 04:30 PM [link]

19. Charley F.,

    I thought the 10/22 already was banned in NJ?

    Posted by Kirk Parker on 11/21 at 07:09 PM [link]

20. I second the suggestion for a .22 as a first firearm (hand or long). Especially if the person has had no previous experience. Though I lean towards a rifle in that case.

    Reasons:
    1) Is cheap and fun to shoot
    2) Is a cheap way to learn *how* to shoot any small arm
    3) Won’t spook the skittish
    4) Can take small game with it
    5) Unless dealing with determined, drugged, and/or multiple vermin, just presenting it with a clear intent of using it tends to deescalate the situation

    I’ve found some real nice prices with CDNN. Just have them ship to your local FFL. But their inventory changes regularly so check their catalog every now and again. (Nothing stands out in the current catalog… unless you want to try speculating that hi-cap mags will be grandfathered and you’ll be able to sell em for a heck of a lot more later)

    For self defense I agree with Greg on the pistol. Especially after running across this account of Argentina’s economic collapse.

    Posted by Dave on 11/21 at 09:31 PM [link]

21. Scotty,

    Where I live, you walk into the nearest Highway Patrol office, fill out a form, and pay $137 (we’re a “shall issue” state) and you’re done, so I can’t easily get into the mindset of someone who has to wait a year to maybe get their permit. Do you have to specify on your application which gun you want the permit for?

    Posted by Greg on 11/21 at 09:54 PM [link]

22. Greg,

    No, the way it works is you list all the purposes that you want the gun for (target, hunting, self defense etc) and after several interviews with your four references and a judge etc you may get your permit.  If you get your permit, it will list the permissible purposes on it, and you’d better not be out and about with your pistol doing something other than the purposes on the permit.  To wit, if target shooting is the only thing you’re allowed, don’t get into a fenderbender at the grocery store nowhere near the range, because they will want to know why that pistol is with you.  (I realize that they probably wouldn’t find it if it’s locked in the trunk of your car, but the threat is there.)

    Then what you then do is go buy the gun you want, and get a bill of sale.  You take the bill of sale to the county clerk, who then charges you a few bucks and adds it to the permit.  Then you go back to the guy you bought the gun from and he gives you the gun you bought.

    The only bright spot in all this is that each county is different.  In Erie (where Buffalo is) it’s this onerous process and unless you know the judge or a few cops you’re not going to be issued a CCW.  The next county over (Niagara, where I hope to move to in the next 3 years or so) only issues CCW, and they are much less onerous about the whole thing.

    I am very jealous, by the way.

    Posted by Scotty on 11/21 at 10:17 PM [link]

23. Scotty,

    That’s so labyrinthine and draconian I don’t think there’s any doubt it qualifies as “infringement” in the 2A sense. Ridiculous.

    I gotta hit the hay to be up before dawn tomorrow, but I want to continue this converation. Hopefully others will chime in and we can get you some good advice.

    Posted by Greg on 11/21 at 10:31 PM [link]

24. Scotty,  You have my sympathy.  I can better appreciate my own circumstances after hearing of yours.  And I offer this advice.  Move.  Preferably out of NY.  Freedom is a wonderful thing.  Good luck.

    Posted by lenf on 11/22 at 06:39 AM [link]

25. In discussions with my 80-year-old uncle, I’ve become convinced that the .22 is the “one gun” of choice. Lots of ammo takes up little space, and it will take a deer if you know what you’re doing. I don’t know about the semi-autos, though. The more stuff a gun has, the more stuff can break. I have a Remington bolt .22 that my dad had in high school in the late ‘30s, and it still works perfectly.
    That said, a short-range anti-goblin weapon should probably lob a fatter projectile to lend a sense of immediacy to the encounter. A 20ga. is about right.

    Posted by MichigammeDave on 11/22 at 08:48 AM [link]

26. Scotty, there used to be a great online forum for concealed-carry issues called packing.org.  One thing I remember that’s relevant to your situation is the reccomendation to fill in that form with the phrase “all legal purposes”.

    This seemed to be generally accpeted by all on the forum, and covers every conceivable base.  As long as you arent doing something illegal, you’ll be safe.

    I always wondered why packing.org shut down.  Man that place was a gold-mine for the gun owner.

    Posted by Ytram on 11/22 at 09:58 AM [link]

27. I like a pistol for an only gun.  Yes it is harder to learn to use correctly, is not as powerful as a rifle or shot gun but it is very mobile, which means that it is much more likely to be on hand when trouble strikes.

    Posted by skwang on 11/22 at 10:16 AM [link]

28. lenf,

    I’d love to move out of NYS, but there is a laundry list of reasons not to (ailing parents, deep rooted love of my city, I have my absolute dream job right now etc), so Niagara county it is.

    Even if I had a CCW, I would not be able to carry most of the time anyway-I work for the state university.  I spend most of my time out of the house in a designated helpless victim zone.

    Ytram,

    Sounds like good advice, thanks!

    Posted by Scotty on 11/22 at 11:17 AM [link]

29. Yes a first gun should be a shotgun, probably a Mossberg. A shotgun is a point weapon ans effective with a minimum of practice. It is best for defenseand is quite intimidating, which is important as well. In Suburbia, it is often difficult to find a place to practice and with a shotgun, familiarization with the operation and a few shots will suffice as a minimum, certainly a minmum isn’t best, but it may have to do as opposed to the time and skill required to effectively defend yourself with a pistol, much more with a rifle.

    Personally, with me being a gun enthusiaist, I went the exact opposite, but then I had the time and place to ebcme competant, and the time and times, not so desparately short. So, if you have the time, money, and place to practice, you can become effective with a rifle, and do so!

    Posted by Gary on 11/22 at 12:59 PM [link]

30. Greg—terrific site! I too found your site from Kim at theotherside.com, and think you are doing everyone a great service! I’ve been here ten minutes, and already I’ve picked up some real pearls of info from you and the other posters. Keep up the good work!

    First firearm? My vote is shotgun also. But it’s good that you and others pointed out that there is no “one perfect gun”. The .22 cal does have many advantages, but I submit that in a real adrenalin-fueled “fight or flight” home invasion situation, the less aim and experience needed to use a firearm the better. A .22 still needs to be aimed fairly well to do the job, even at close range. A shotgun, especially with the 00-loads some have suggested, can be pointed in the general direction of the threat and “neutralize” the problem even if you are scared sh*tless. And let’s not forget that the “click-clack” sound of a pump shotgun has been documented to have caused some burglars to “rethink their strategy” and exit the dwelling post-haste. And finally, a shotgun round is far less likely to penetrate walls and harm the innocent, either in your house or a neighbor’s. That said… you still should get a good handgun and practice!

    One final suggestion: Although they can be a bit pricey, there are guns called “airsoft” guns that can be very realistic to practice with, usually in an enclosed yard, if you want to practice aim, situations, holster-draw, etc. After you buy an airsoft pistol, the operational costs are no more than a BB-gun. This might help some of the readers who live in more restrictive staes or cities. Just Google “airsoft” and you should be able to find out info on models, dealers, prices, etc.

    Hope that helps. Thanks again to you, Greg, and all the posters.

    —-J.D.

    Posted by jd35801 on 11/22 at 10:04 PM [link]

31. I have to weigh in with the observation that you cannot fire a shotgun ‘in the general direction of the threat’ and hope to hit it.  It is just as easy to miss with a shotty as with a rifle - the advantages of a guage being that a shooter can make hits with a less precise (i.e. rushed) sight picture than with a rifle. 

    TP
    Small Arms Master Gunner

    Posted by SFC P- on 11/22 at 11:33 PM [link]

32. J.D.

    Here’s an interesting site that tests your assertion that shotgun rounds are less dangerous that pistol or rifle rounds: http://www.theboxotruth.com/

    The shotgun testing is here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

    Basically, they built a box that will hold several wall worth of drywall spaced out so the you can see the effect of a particular round at each wall.

    The conclusion is that although a shot salvo will penetrate fewer walls, it’s still pretty deadly after the first one.  They also debunk the Point in the general direction” theory.

    Posted by Scotty on 11/23 at 09:58 AM [link]

33. I forgot about the box of truth, thanks much for the reminder.

    Also forgot about the realistic pellet guns. I had a co-worker that had one the was about the same size and shape as his carry. He setup a pellet trap in his home and would practice whenever the mood struck him. Claimed it speeded up his sighting in.

    Another note on the .22, while I don’t think it is very good for self defense
    it isn’t useless.

    Posted by Dave on 11/23 at 06:39 PM [link]

34. I know this is a US-centric blog but I was wondering what you’d recommend for people living in countries that don’t allow gun ownership?

    Thinking about it, maybe the US will go the same way over the next 4 years, so this information might be useful to those people that can’t get firearms after that time too.

    Posted by Yabusame on 11/24 at 04:20 AM [link]

35. “I know this is a US-centric blog but I was wondering what you’d recommend for people living in countries that don’t allow gun ownership?“

    First option: Move.
    Second option: Black Market.
    Third Option: Run for office on a platform of allowing firearms, or vote for someone who is.

    Plan B: Study some sort of effective martial art that incorporates weapons into their training (especially stuff like Bo/Hanbo and knife training).

    “Thinking about it, maybe the US will go the same way over the next 4 years, so this information might be useful to those people that can’t get firearms after that time too.“

    First option: Vote the bastards out.
    Second option: Black market.
    Plan B: etc.

    It’s your life, why let someone else tell you how to live it?

    Posted by Billy Oblivion on 11/24 at 08:20 AM [link]

36. Shotguns are good for two things (in this context):

    Getting *SOME* sort of hit on a moving BG to slow him down long enough to get a GOOD center mass hit.

    Putting someone down NOW with a good center mass hit. Yeah, they may get up, but you put a full load of double ought buck in their chest you’ll have time to hit them again.

    There are no magic wands. None. With everything short of of .300wm/.338 lapua/.50BMG we’ve seen failures to stop. Maybe only in extreme cases, but we’ve seen them. (Body armor, drugs, *TOUGH* SOBs who want to “win” at any cost, whatever).

    The most important thing in a “first” gun is that it may also be (for whatever reason) your “last” gun.

    Your first gun has 2 requirements:
    1) That you can get good hits with it.
    2) That it is comfortable to shoot a lot.

    IN THAT ORDER, but you need both. It needs to be comfortable because to get to an acceptable level you’re going to have to shoot routinely, and it sucks to use a gun that is uncomfortable.

    Go to a range that rents guns and try stuff. Try lots of stuff. Let them know that you’re looking to buy—they may have a policy that lets you put some of the rental fees towards an eventual purchase (from them).

    Almost anything (except .25 and maybe .32) can be used for self defense, and certainly anything .380 and higher (within their envelope. If you’re only comfortable with a .22 or .380 practice shooting pingpong balls at 21 feet, then shoot for the eyes in a defensive environment).

    Any gun (again except a .25 or maybe a .32) is better than no gun.

    Posted by Billy Oblivion on 11/24 at 08:32 AM [link]

37. Yabusame,

    Billy Oblivion definitely has the right strategy from a long-term perspective, but I hear what you’re saying: You need some advice that helps you now, not five years from now.

    As it happens, I sat down last night to start a post about martial arts that I hope to have finished today or tomorrow, so please come back and be on the lookout for it.

    I’d say that for firearm ownership, the “black market” option is the one that deserves most of your attention at the moment. Two major considerations come to mind immediately, though, and you should consider them very carefully before you make a decision:

    The first is what you’re risking if you get caught by the authorities in possession of a firearm. What’s the punishment, and is it worth the risk? If you save your life or the life of your family through the use of your gun, and as a result end up spending some time in jail, I’d say that’s worth the risk. Not knowing which country you live in, I don’t know the maximum punishment for firearm possession, so only you can make that assessment and reach a decision that’s best for you and your family.

    The second is what kind of people you’ll be dealing with in the process of obtaining your firearm. Pick just about any black market, from first-world places like the United States to third-world hellholes like Somalia or Cote d’Ivoire, and you see a range of people involved in the selling of items. That range includes (relatively) harmless peddlers who usually operate at a very local level, to dangerous thugs in whose life you’re putting your hands every time you come in contact with them. Obviously, if you decide you want to obtain a firearm on the black market, you want to be dealing with the harmless peddlers. But no matter who you deal with, you need to remember several key things:

    - Don’t give them your name. Make up an alias.

    - Don’t let them know where you live, or who your family is.

    - You’ll have to deal only in cash, and you never want to carry too much, or reveal to them how much you have or can get access to.

    - Don’t get into a situation where you need to return to the same people for anything to complete your firearm setup. For example, don’t buy a pistol without a magazine on the promise that if you come back tomorrow, they’ll have exactly the magazine you need, and really cheap. Don’t buy a gun with a magazine, and let them talk you into returning the next day for ammunition. When criminals know that you have cash, that you’re unarmed, and that you’ll be at a certain location at a certain time, Bad Things often happen. Get what you need in one transaction, or find another source for whatever else you need after your initial purpose.

    - Never give someone money - be it the full amount or a “down payment” - on the promise that they’ll return with your gun. They won’t.

    Better than going to the black market would be to go to a friend you know has a gun and might be willing to sell or trade it. Definitely exhaust this option before turning to the street.

    Posted by Greg on 11/24 at 10:00 AM [link]

38. Greg,

    I’m based in the UK and we are currently going through an extended period where the mere mention of firearms is demonized, let alone the actual ownership of such.  Every week or two there’s an article on the news about gang shootings and the firearms are blamed, not the individuals using such to commit crimes.

    Whilst I have thought about the black market for the acquisition of a firearm, I will not (and can not) go that route.  I fear that it could only lead to greater problems than it would solve.  I have several friends in the Police Force and I wouldn’t be able to look them in the eye.  As such, the black market is out of the question.

    I liked the suggestion of Martial Arts, as I’ve studied such for over 18 years, so its nice to know that a Hanbo and a knife are your recommendations as they are what I have to hand in the event of an ‘incident’.  Whilst I love to use a Yari and a Bo, I fear it may be too long for a confined space to wield with any finesse, but I also have a Wakizashi that I may press into use as a home-defence weapon rather than just for Tameshigiri/etc (I think I’ll add my Katana too).

    So, I’m left with a Hanbo, a knife, and a Wakizashi.  I just hope that the Goblins aren’t so well armed.

    I find this an interesting subject, so thanks for the pointers.  I just wish my social overlords hadn’t disarmed me.  I hate feeling like a sheep.

    Posted by Yabusame on 11/24 at 10:21 AM [link]

39. Yabusame,

    It sounds like you already know that a remarkable amount of pain can be administered using simple, “harmless” objects such as cel phones, small sticks, things you can carry on keychains, etc. I plan to highlight these in an upcoming post. Stay tuned.

    Posted by Greg on 11/24 at 10:36 AM [link]

40. Hello, all! Sorry that my comments about shotguns were not very “accurate” (pardon the pun). Thank you to Scotty for introducing me to theboxoftruth.com website. There is more wall penetration with the shotgun than I was aware of, although it was less than the tested handguns. Billy Oblivion said everything I meant to say, only better than I did. Sorry if I passed on any bad info. Like any weapon, a shotgun is a tool for a job, but is definitely imperfect.

    Posted by jd35801 on 11/24 at 10:30 PM [link]

41. I think this really depends on where you live. If you live in a state where you can get a concealed carry permit, then I think a handgun really makes sense primarily because of it’s portability.

    If you live in a more restrictive state, I think a shotgun is the way to go. I have a remington 870 and it’s easy to get two barrels for it (and still be under the $500 limit) and then you have a shorter (18”) barreled shotgun for using in tight spaces as well as a longer barrel that’s good for hunting. There’s a wide variety in shotgun shells so read up on them first. Also a shell carrier of some sort so you can carry the different types of rounds (as well as more) is also good. Look for a pump (or an automatic though these tend to be pricier) as they hold more rounds.

    Of course ideally I’d say get both a pistol and a shotgun if you can swing it. Not only to utilize the different advantages each offers over the other but it’s also always a good idea to have a backup gun just in case.

    Posted by chris on 12/03 at 07:39 AM [link]

42. Alrighty, every base can be covered for around $500. A decent rifle, pistol, and shotgun can be bought for that.

    12 gauge Mossberg 500 can be found for well under $200 used.

    Mosin Nagant 91/30 can be had for under $100.

    Take your pick from Kel Tec on the 9mm pistols… should be around $300.

    I bought a used Mossberg 500 for $130 at a gun show, a Mosin Nagant for $85 also at a gun show, and a Kel Tec P11 new for $310…

    That’s a 12 gauge pump shotgun, a 9mm semi-auto pistol, and a bolt-action full powered rifle in 7.62x54r. ALL THREE for $525 TOTAL.

    Posted by Josh on 01/20 at 01:38 AM [link]

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